Transcript: Mrs. Hamburg on English, Authenticity, and Creating Space for Boys to Be Real

Good morning, and welcome back to Late Start Show. We are here today with someone who has shaped the way we think, write, and see the world through stories. The Middle School English Department chair, an eighth grade English teacher, and an eighth grade sponsor, my eighth grade sponsor. How are you doing today, Ms.

Ember? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. It's early, but I guess that's the best time of day to do things like this when you're fresh.

No, I completely agree. It's great to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. We always like to start by learning more about our teachers when they were younger.

So can you take us back to where you grew up, kind of what that felt like, your neighborhood, your community? What was that like? Okay, so I grew up in a town called Shambly, Georgia, about 11 miles north of the city center of Atlanta. And I grew up in a really traditional neighborhood, kids out in the yard, riding bikes, playing basketball. all, I had two sisters and my parents and my sisters were six and seven years older than me.

So I wanted to be involved in everything they were doing. But I would spend most of my days in my neighborhood, just coming home from school and finding kids out riding bikes. Or we used to play tennis on the street up the road and because we didn't have tennis courts and I learned all the Southern things. My mom was a terrible cook, so I didn't learn cooking from her, but grew up loving grits and all that good stuff.

So, you know, when you think of the South from your childhood, what's one of the first things that you can hear, smell, kind of think about that you still don't really get to experience in the North? Definitely the, you know, that feeling when you get in your car in the afternoon and the sun's been shining on it, it's like an oven. That's how it is outside in the South. So we have a few days every summer up here that you're like, oh my gosh, the humidity is so high and it's so hot.

But typically summers up here are much more mild comparatively. But in the South, I mean, you, it could be 80 degrees at seven o'clock in the morning. And that sounds great, except for it's also 85% humidity. I do not miss that at all.

One of the things I don't get experience up here though, that I do miss, I used to tell people when they would say, what do you miss about the South? And I'd actually say nothing. It was so hot and the bugs were terrible. But I've recently, as my kids have gotten older, discovered that it's really hard to travel from Northeast Ohio.

Like in Georgia, you could be in the mountains in two hours. You could be at the beach in four hours. You could be in Texas in 10 and a half hours if you wanted to be. And up here, you drive 10 hours and you're still kind of in the middle of nowhere unless you want to go to the, you know, Northeast, you know, coast up that way.

So it's a lot harder to travel up here for sure what were you kind of like as an elementary school kid if your teachers are being honest what maybe they've written on your report card be a rule follower um i recently told my students i was very much scout finch for sure y'all didn't read to kill mockingbird you did okay i couldn't remember um yeah i was the sassy one the one that was always speaking up like scout does in the book where she tries to tell miss caroline well he doesn't didn't leave his lunch at home he doesn't have lunch because he's you know a country person and um i actually told my students the other day we were reading lord of the flies and when jack hits piggy in the stomach we talk about like how significant it is to actually strike another person out of anger and i said i was scott finch i used to get fights some in fights on the school bus with my neighbor across the street and you know i was just this feisty spit fire of a kid um but in class i was also the kid that would get done with my work the fastest. And so you two boys are probably like that as well. And when I was younger, that meant that I would find ways to entertain myself. So I was often the one who was talking or a busy body.

And then my teachers realized that they could give me more work or they could give me jobs to do. So they figured out how to keep me focused and things like that. But I was a good student because if I got in trouble in school, That meant I was in trouble at home, but I was sassafras and not a know-it-all because I didn't know it all, but just scout finch. If you can just epitomize me in that, there you go.

When you think about kind of school, whether it's lower school, middle school, or high school, we all have those people who just deeply influence us. Who are some of those big influences for you, whether or not in school or just outside of school? Um, so there, I think, honestly, part of the reason I wanted to become a teacher was because high school wasn't great for me. I didn't have these inspirational teachers that changed my life in the classroom.

Um, learning was very status quo, um, very much teacher lecture. You don't get to have your own thoughts. And we read books just like they were written. And so I did, I did have a soccer coach though.

And I'll tell you about her in a second, but the first time school ever really became more than learning to me was I did dual enrollment in my senior year where you went to college half the day and then you went to high school the other half. And we had this English teacher and you have probably heard this story, but I made straight A's in school, especially in English. And so we go to take, I take freshman English in college with two of my best friends and we read Death of a Salesman. And we had to do an analysis of Willie Lohan as the main character and like just discuss his journey and his character arc.

And I wrote my paper like I'd written every other paper and all my, you know, eyes were dotted and T's were crossed and I was perfect grammarian. And then I get the paper back and on the front, there was a big fat F. And I was like, you know, freaking out. Cause in college you might, at that time, you may have had three papers and then a final and that was your whole grade.

So I'm panicking and I flipped through the paper. This was back when you didn't really have the option of, we typed in mom's typewriter. I mean, I'm old. So I'm like, maybe I gave him the wrong version or maybe something happened.

And I flipped to the last page and he said, you have used language beautifully, but you've said absolutely nothing. And that was the first time that I had any teacher in my life say, say something that matters. And so even though it was technically a college professor, it was during my senior year of high school that kind of this like, you know, when your mind flashes backwards and you see all these things, I'm like, my teachers have been lying to me. They said I had, they said I had all these things to say and they were really impressed with me.

And what I realized is that I was a compliant, dutiful student who didn't give them any problems and they knew I would be just fine. And so they kind of like pushed me to the side and then dealt with the more challenging kids. And so that was, I can't even remember his name, but he was amazing. And it's just sad that it was my senior year that that realization occurred.

And so that tied into why I teach the way I teach. But my soccer coach in high school, I made varsity in ninth grade. So that was pretty awesome. We went to state every year and she was the first real dominant female athlete I ever met.

And, um, she played on the national championship college team for Berry college, which is a college in North Georgia. And, um, three of my four seasons, she was like extremely pregnant and she was just out there doing everything with us. And, um, she just knew so much about soccer and discipline and she taught me work ethic and really made me feel like I was a part of something. So those two people, in terms of my academic and scholastic or academic and athletic experience changed my life.

But one other person, I had a youth pastor in church in high school and it was my junior year. And you guys know junior year is so much college and AP classes and all these things. And I was having a, You appreciate my metaphor I was having a meltdown at church one Wednesday afternoon because I went to church every time the doors were open That was my family rule So it didn matter if I had soccer practice or eight hours of homework I still had to be at church that night And I was just just really struggling. And his name's Larry Yarborough.

And he said, Mel dog, that's what he called me. He said, what is going on? And I was like, I have so much to do. And he was like, this is when Chipper Jones played for the Braves and he said, Melissa, he goes, when Chipper Jones steps up to that plate, do you think he thinks about every pitch he's going to face that game?

I'm like, no, that'd be stupid. He was like, he stands at that plate and he watches the ball coming at him right in that moment. And he focuses on it. And sometimes he swings and misses, but more often than not, he crushes it.

And he was like, you are trying to think about too many pitches at once. And so he just said, just step up to the plate. What's coming at you right now? And you go for it.

You swing for the fences. You give it everything you have. And when that pitch goes by you, you're done with it. You're done.

And I give students that advice more often than more so in high school when the pressure is really, really high. But just when you're feeling overwhelmed, like you can't possibly think of every pitch you're going to face in a game. You've only got to think about that one. And that's still, as a parent, there's a lot of pitches coming at you at one time.

And so I still try to focus on that metaphor as a way to like really use my energy to the best that I can. And you ended up going to college at the University of Georgia. What led you and pulled you towards that path? Honestly, I went to Mercer University, a small Christian school in Macon, Georgia, a private college my first year.

I played soccer there and I was in their auditioned choir. We did some amazing things and this might take a darker turn than you knew was going to happen. but that was the year that my mom died and my mom worked at Mercer. And when she died, and again, there were 1200 students total and she was human resources. So literally every employee in that from the janitorial staff, all the way to the president had sat in her office at some point.

And I really felt like everybody was staring at me. And I thought that they were, that's all they saw. And I wanted to disappear. And I was like, I need to go to the biggest school I can think of that my family can still afford.

And so I transferred to the University of Georgia, which had 40,000 students at the time. And I, the only thing I had to give up was my choir and my soccer because they didn't, they didn't have a women's soccer team at the time. But it ended up being the best decision of my life. Georgia was awesome.

I love saying I'm a Georgia Bulldog and that we're three-time national champions and all that stuff. And being a sports lover like I am, it just made sense for me to be there. You know, you ended up studying secondary English at the University of Georgia. What kind of pulled you towards that?

And when did you start to realize, yeah, this is going to be my thing? So when I transferred to Georgia, I was on task to be a biochemical engineering major. I had done four college math, six college sciences. I was in it to win it.

And I went back home to my childhood home and was going through some of my stuff because my dad was selling it after my mom had passed. And I found all of my journals and I used to write poetry and some of the essays I'd written, especially from my dual enrollment English classes. And I just felt in that moment, I was like, this is what I want. I don't want to sit in a laboratory.

And my goal was to engineer medicines that were, you know, hopefully going to work towards cures for cancer. That's what my mom died from. And I saw her struggle at the end and I really wanted to do palliative care and then also treatments. And so it was a very inspired choice to do biochemical engineering.

However, I just felt this, like my soul woke up in that moment. And I'm like this, I want to talk to kids. I want to be with kids. I want to, I want to get them to a place where they feel like they're more self-actualized and have deeper, more meaningful conversations early on.

And I realized that that wasn't going to happen in a lab or, you know, a math class, which I was actually very good at math and science. I was like, it needs to be an English class and that's where I need to do it. And what was your first, very first teaching job? And I guess, did you feel more confident in the teaching literature part, teaching writing part, or just managing the classroom?

I mean, what was that first job like? I got hired at a school in just about 20 miles east of Atlanta, west of Atlanta, called named Douglasville. And it was called Chapel Hill High School. Super pumped to get the job.

There was teacher shortage at the time. And I was 20, about to be 22 because I graduated early. And they had me teaching senior remedial English. So I had a 19 year old in my class, an 18 year old in my class.

And I was scared to death. I didn't know what I was doing and literally had friends in college who were 19 years old. So that was very strange. You know, I, they just kind of throw you to the wolves.

It used to be, they would give new teachers like the classes nobody else wanted. And they really didn't tell you anything about how to do it. This makes me think of another line in Lord of the Flies. Ralph is walking along and he realizes that every step in life is an improvisation because he's struggling with the fact that he can't control the boys on the island and he doesn't know what to do.

And so I, that's how I felt. I'm like, I had no idea what I was doing. I knew literature, but I did not know how to motivate kids. So I just started talking to them about things, but I had a boy say to me, I'm going to be a farrier, a horseshoer.

Why do I need to read Shakespeare? And I didn't have an answer for him at that time. So I was like, you know, you probably don't. So it was a struggle.

I didn't have classroom management problems because I was just honest. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Let's just get along. Nobody gets in trouble.

We'll figure this thing out as we go. But it was challenging for sure. Now let's go to a big switch from the South to Northeast Ohio. What really brought Cleveland to you and what was that path kind of like?

So I met my husband, I'm trying to think when that was, we've been together 16 years, so 2010. I was not at the first school I taught at that time. I actually got transferred to a different school. I didn't want to go to that school.

It was really far away from my apartment, like 55 minute drive and just insane. But I got transferred there because when I started teaching there was a teacher shortage and then there was a teacher surplus. And so they needed to move teachers around. So I get transferred to the school.

I get plopped right down next door to my current husband. And he is literally my male version. We are almost mere, I mean, people, we taught in the same school for five years together and next door and kids would go from his class to my class. They're like, you're the same person.

It was, it was really great. But And my dad subsequently died after we, eight months after we had my oldest son, Eli, and my husband and I were just sitting there one day and we were like, this kid needs a family. Like there was, it was me and my sister, side note, my other sister passed away the same year my mom did, but that's a different story. But so I had a sister and a dad, sister left and down there.

And my husband has five brothers and sisters who live up here and they, they're 18 grand children total, including now 18. So including my two sons. And I was like, I want my kids to know their family. I want them to have cousins everywhere.

I want them to grow up with cousins that are like siblings. I want them to know their grandparents. I never knew my grandparents. So my husband was like I swore I would never go back to Ohio again It cold and gray And I like but think about all the opportunities for our kids you know And so it was an easy decision for me Um cause I think I could be happy anywhere Um, but that's what brought me here.

And then how'd you end up at us? Oh, wow. Okay. So, um, the first two hours in Cleveland, we were, we knew we wanted to move here and we said out loud to the universe, to God, we'll take any job we can get.

And that was funny because I ended up at Glenville High School and my husband ended up at Collinwood High School, like two of, you know, reputably the toughest schools in Cleveland. And I was not afraid because before I ended up at the school, my husband, I had taught at three different schools and two of them were in inner city Atlanta. So I was like, I have taught in inner city Atlanta. I can teach in inner city Cleveland.

And it was not what I thought it was going to be at all, mostly because of the funding and so on and so forth. So I was there for nine months. We got pregnant with Judah right after we moved here, which was awesome. And then I got put on bedrest towards the, well, I wasn't there quite nine months, but I got put on bedrest towards the end of the year.

And I looked at my husband was like, I can't ever go back there. I was like, I can't ever teach there again. It was the funding. It was the way the school was run.

It was really hard for me to teach in a school that was, you could probably throw a football to Bratton all from the school and like the wealth disparity. It was just kids literally across the interstate had more than some of my students would ever have. It was just hard. So I decided to just not teach for a year, raise my baby.

And then Gilmore Academy called because I forgot I had had my application from the year before on LinkedIn and some of the school things. We need a part-time English teacher. and so then I got hired at Gilmore. I worked there for five years and then mostly ninth grade but did juniors and seniors and then realized that I wanted to be at a school where I could make an impact with younger students and then the job at U.S. came open and I was given a really hard time at Gilmore for wanting to come to U.S. but it was the best decision I ever made. So I feel really fortunate because it's really hard to get hired at university school.

So I had imposter syndrome for a while. It was all a journey for me. You know, there's this kind of really, there's always, everybody has really funny stories about that first day or even sometimes even the interview experience here. Do you remember the first time stepping on that campus and being like, and do you remember the first time even you were like, yeah, I think I could see myself at this place?

Well, I was interviewing in 2021. So it was COVID. So my interview was virtual, which was super strange because I sat on Zoom and because the interview process at U.S. is really long. I mean, it's a full day.

And so I met with different stakeholders in the community from board members to other departments. I was interviewing not only for a teaching position, but also department chair. So it was a little more involved. And I just, I had heard that U.S. was really proper and everybody was going to be like super formal and I have a nose ring and they're like, take the nose ring out and all these things and tattoos and stuff.

And it was funny because I, the first Zoom, it was a house shirt day. So like everybody was in t-shirts and ponytails and I'm like, this is not what I thought was happening at all. So the interview, I just felt really, I could talk to everybody I met with Ms. Farrell was one of them.

I remember Mr. Jones just, just feeling their energy and being like, okay, like these are people I can connect with. And then I had to do a virtual lesson with kids I'd never met on Zoom. So you guys, you haven't been in my class, but you know, like the in-person stuff is important.

So I was really concerned that the energy wasn't going to translate, but it did. But then I did have to come in person to meet with Ms. Arnie at the end of the day. And I remember driving up to campus and just, it was dismissal.

Boys were everywhere. And I was like, this looks like, you know, um, monsters university. Like I thought of that, like the U and the gate and all that. And, um, it was in the spring.

And so everybody was really, really excited. It was right before, um, spring break, I think. So people were really, really crazy, but I walked, I got out of my car and Mr. Fay was like, Ms.

Hamburg. And he was like, here, you're going to be coaching soccer. I was like, I don't even work here yet. he's like, we need a soccer coach. And so I just, I walked, I went home that the meeting with Miss Arnie was awesome.

And I went home that afternoon and I just thought, I want to raise my boys in an all boys school. And I, I want, I just, everybody was so happy and so kind and so nice. And I did get a tour from a maroon key boy. And I thought you are more articulate than students I've taught in the last 10 years.

And so just the impression of the seriousness was, it really struck me. And then also doing the research of the tradition of the school and just what it meant to be a U.S. boy. I wanted that, you know, I felt that with my connection with the University of Georgia, like it means something to be an alum from there. And I really appreciated the fraternity and the brotherhood that you look at the alumni involvement, I mean, all over the country.

It's just, I was like, I need to be a part of that. What is it about that all boys education that you think allows boys to just, you know, grow and not just their education, but also that brotherhood and the life, I mean, life lessons? I think it has, well, I've taught until U.S., I taught only in co-ed settings. And I think one of the biggest difference I, biggest differences I have noticed is just the lack of pressure to perform.

I think, I realize there's that dynamic amongst boys, but it's different, right? I think there's a vulnerability that is possible when you aren't dealing with having the opposite gender in the room with you. Actually, going back to my interview, I can't remember who said it to me. That was a while ago, but somebody said, you know, the captain of our football team was also the lead in the high school musical, and you just don't tend to see that in co-ed situations.

There's stigmas, and so that is amazing. Like, and the opportunities the school provides here for students to try new things, that's not unique to a single gender school, but I know in the English classroom in particular, boys will, we can talk about issues that are unique to boys without them looking around and saying, you know, you're letting my secrets out. You know, we, I can look at my students and say, guys, let me give you some advice. Okay.

You just, you know, like, for example, we were talking about in Lord of the Flies, we're reading that now. So you might hear a lot about that. But when Jack and Ralph are like pitted against each other and we talked about what does it mean to stand on your business? Like why, like how does that make you a man to stand on your business?

What is, how does that relate to responsibility, loyalty, consideration and things like that? I wouldn't be able to have that conversation with girls in the room because they're just, there'd be giggles and there'd be awkwardness and they'd be like, well, I don't know. And like, are you being too masculine and talk, you know, toxic masculine and all that. And like, no, we get to break all that down and talk about the nuances of what it means to be a young man.

And even though I'm a woman, I'm a boy mom, and I feel like I'm on that journey together. The students teach me as much about it as I offer to them, I think, about being a human, I guess. You know, talking about that path, about you being a boy mom, what is it like having, you know, not many teachers get to have that experience. So what is it like having your sons at the same school that you get to teach at?

Well, so that, I will say this. So I don't know if you know this, but Eli skipped eighth grade and has been addicted with my husband. So he, he was diagnosed with autism early on in seventh grade. He's had ADHD, but like, you know, when you get to middle school, the status quo for what makes you a good friend changes.

Like it's no longer, can you play? And are you fine It more like are you cool And are you going through puberty yet And do you look like a nerd you know it that social piece and he just really struggled with it So we withdrew him He went to a really small school to kind of process his diagnosis and learn how to live with that But um and now he at Benedictine but I will say this. Um, I love seeing my kids love seeing both of them every day when I was at school. Um, and now it's just Judah and me together at us.

He's going to be in fifth grade next year. So he's grown a lot. But he, I will say being able to trust and know the heart and soul of the teachers that he's with every year gives me such confidence in his experience. And just knowing the journey he's on and that it's where it's going to end and how powerful that will be.

But also I was in Steamworks yesterday and Judah comes by after lunch and he runs in and gives me big hug and he's like, I love you, mom. You're the best. And I think that it's good for my students to see me as a mom too, but also my son to see me as a teacher, which is awesome. But I've also had to say to his teachers, please don't have a parent conference with me when I'm at school.

Like I, I'm not the kind of person that can code switch that fast. Like if you need to come and talk to me, cause my kid's got a sassy mouth. Cause he does, please don't do it when I'm at lunch. Cause My brain is in, I'm a teacher, I'm with my sponsor, sponsees, I'm preparing for my next lesson in my mind.

And then you get me like wanting to go down to the lower school and jerk my kid out of classroom and give him a little what for, you know, and I'm like, I can't do that. Um, but we've, we've worked out a good dynamic as far as that goes. Another big part of your experience at U.S. has been coaching soccer and you've been able to make an impact on the boys that way. So what has that been like?

Um, well, I coached varsity boys soccer in Georgia for 10 years. And so my first year here, I was hired as an assistant. So just for me personally, that was a big shift. Um, just not being playing first fiddle and like having to defer to somebody else.

Um, so that was personally like an adjustment. Um, and then also realizing that, and I was a B coach, I was the middle school B coach at first. So realizing also that these are middle schoolers, like it's not cutthroat like varsity sports are. And then our goal is not to win on B soccer, but to engender a love for the sport, for moving your body, for some of these boys.

As you remember, middle school, you had to do two sports or at least two community credit engaged, one of them being a sport. And some of these boys were out there simply because it was a short season in the fall when the weather was usually good. And they liked Coach Montagna, you know. And so it was really neat for me to just realize we're just going to have fun with soccer.

We're just going to be out here together. And that was really fun. And then Mr. Montania and I got moved to A, when Mr.

Bailey left the school. And I kind of found my sweet spot because A soccer is supposed to win. And you can have higher expectations. So that kind of brought back some of my skill set.

And Mr. Montagna and I coach is like two co-head coaches versus the assistant and the main coach. And so he's defensive. I'm offensive coach because that's what I played.

And we've had two really good seasons. And I will be honest, though, it was the place where I experienced probably. I don't want to I don't want to say sexism because I don't think middle schoolers know that yet. But the idea that like, there's this woman coach and then we have Mr.

Montaigne who they think is a God, you know, and a lot, I had to like prove myself a little bit to the boys that actually knew what I was doing and learning how to do that. I'd never had to do that before. So that was different. But after the first few times we would go out there and run a couple of miles and, you know, I'd tell them something that actually works that falls away pretty quickly.

So it's been really fun. I love knowing the boys outside of the classroom. I think that's really important. And them knowing me outside of the classroom as well.

Yeah. When you think about legacy, what do you think you want your students to remember about you years from now? I mean, obviously, every educator wants to make a lasting impact on students. But if I come back or so many other of your sponsors come back years from now, which hopefully we will and still see you just going through the halls, what do you want us to remember about you?

I want students, gosh, there's a lot, but I think if I, I'm going to give you three things. The first one that is my goal as a teacher of English and of writing is that boys will be very, so comfortable with self-expression through language that they have the right words to say exactly what they need to say at exactly the right time, no matter what that is, whether they're standing in front of a judge trying to get out of a speeding ticket or advocating to be hired at their workplace of their dreams or asking a woman to marry them or their life partner to marry them. Like, I hope that they have the words to do that. The second thing is, is I want, my goal is to create a classroom space where people can just be real.

They see me be real and then they feel like they can be real. So to walk away with a stronger sense of confidence and just being who you are, it's okay to be weird. It's okay to have opinions that don't necessarily, you're not going to see streaming across headlines on the ticker at the bottom. It's okay to have a different point of you, but, but just being comfortable in your own skin.

And the last one is I want them to feel like they did work that mattered, that it wasn't just middle school English or had this, whatever. Like I want them to feel like whether, not the books necessarily, but like that what they did mattered in my room, whether it was learning to write or learning to think more authentically or having these moments where like, I've never thought like about anything. Like that's what I want them to, those are skills and ideals that I want them to leave with. When you step back and look at your whole journey, growing up, becoming a teacher, leading the English department and shaping how students find their voice, what is your why?

I think because I wish somebody had done that for me when I was young. I felt, I was very, I was old for my years with older sisters and I just, my parents have always told me I was a very old soul and I felt like I didn't have a place to call home. And I didn't feel like I had a classroom or a space where I could just be myself. And I didn't have a good high school experience.

Kids were mean. I was poor. They were rich. It was all the things.

That's another story for another podcast. But I wanted to make it so that at least for one hour a day, students felt good at school. And I knew also that they could have that feeling while doing really hard work and the value in doing that hard work and achieving. So I want that.

But also, I love kids. They energize me. They crack me up. They're really funny.

And the sad thing is, is they stay the same age and I get older. So I forget sometimes that I'm not 23 anymore. I'm 46 years old. But just the energy that we get to share and transfer between each other and being a consistent place of joy and comfort for students so that they can count on that every single day.

That's why I do it. Well, Mrs. Hamburg, it's been great having you on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your stories, insights, and experiences with us.

To our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. And we'll hope you'll join us next Wednesday for another episode of Late Start Show. Thank you, Mrs. Hamburg.

Thanks, guys. you