Transcript: Dr. Carlson on Adventure’s, Outdoor Learning, and the Power of Perseverance

Good morning, and welcome back to the show. We are here with science teacher, cross-country coach, and bionist, Dr. Carlson, also known as Doc C. How are you, Doc C?

I'm doing well. How are you, Charlie? I'm doing super good. Yeah, great to have you here.

You know, we got to know you as a science teacher at the U.S. Shaker Campus, but obviously you had a long journey to this point. Can you tell us about where you grew up and your point to here? Sure.

So when people ask me where I'm from, I say America, because my dad was in the Navy, so we bounced around a lot. So I've lived in New Hampshire, Connecticut, Virginia, California, Delaware, Michigan, Colorado, Illinois, and then finally Ohio. And each of those places, for the most part, was only three or four years. I spent 10 years in Colorado where I did my grad school, but otherwise, I'm just from all over, coast to coast, and in the middle sometimes.

Yeah. And when you're... When you're in school, do you have any sports or activities that kind of shaped your experience? Later, I didn't do anything as a kid, which I regret.

I understand why, because my parents were just busy. My dad was at sea for six months at a time, and so it was just my mom with the three kids. So the first sport I actually really did was wrestling as a freshman in high school. So I carried that through four years.

I ended up being pretty good at it by the end, and then I picked up running to condition myself for wrestling. So I didn't run because I wanted to. I ran because I felt like I needed to to get into shape. And that's the one that I've carried through the longest and have done the most in.

Wrestling's a little bit harder to kind of, like, continue on. In college, I started rowing at Michigan State, which was a new thing I picked up. Just, I don't know why. Never done it before.

Never had any friends that did it before. It just seemed interesting. So I did that for three years. That was of anything that shaped...

Me physically, it was a three-season sport. You did it fall, winter, and spring, and it was grueling. And so the mental formation of how to, like, persevere, like, that was the one that did it. I also dabbled in, and I know some of you guys will remember, Ultimate Frisbee.

So I played Ultimate Frisbee for Michigan State. Then I picked up cycling and did cycling at Michigan State and then at Colorado State also. So different disciplines, road biking, cyclocross, track biking, and mountain biking. So all four of those.

Yeah. You mentioned your dad was in the Navy. Do you think you learned any lessons that were kind of unique because your dad was in the Navy? I mean, because he was gone so much, it was kind of hard to learn anything from him that way.

But just, I mean, he was very disciplined at home with things, and he was very focused, and he was very focused on detail because he was a nuclear engineer. And so he ran the nuclear reactor that powered submarines. And so there's not that many people that do that, and so you've got to be, like, really good at what you do. You know, you kind of had this interest in nature, but what kind of made you pursue it further and, I mean, kind of even into college?

So I was a Boy Scout, and I did my Eagle Scout stuff, which, you know, is kind of a higher level, kind of where you top out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Delaware, the state, not the town in Ohio.

We would drive, and it wasn't even that far of a drive. It was maybe three or four hours. So we would drive to Virginia and go to Shenandoah Valley National Park. And we would go hiking there and hike to waterfalls.

We would do it in the fall and the spring and the summer. It was just a really fun way to kind of get out with friends. And then my brother, who's a couple of years younger, we started doing this adventure thing where in the middle of winter, not really sure why, we would find some mountain to climb. First thing we did, we went to the Upper Peninsula, Michigan, and we snowshoed along Lake Superior in January.

That was cold. Then we went to and we climbed the highest mountain in New York on New Year's Eve, also very cold. The next year, we went to the Grand Tetons to try to climb that. That didn't go so well.

Then we came back a second year, tried to do that, and also didn't go as well. And that kind of like, it was just the progression up in difficulty. So it was just a really fun adventure that we were kind of seeking. Yeah.

Well, I've seen these memes where it's like the two different types of people on vacation, the one where like sleeps in and the other one gets up at like 4.30 to go hiking. So you obviously seem like the 4.30 to go hiking person. But what's the coolest place that you've been to on like a vacation or just going on an adventure? So in Wyoming, I got to this place called the Wind River Mountains.

And it's this mountain range that's kind of diagonal in the middle of Wyoming, sticks up so it gets... It's like horrendous weather like all year, but it's as close to if you've seen pictures like Patagonia in Argentina, it looks just like that. I mean, these towering 2,000 foot granite cliffs just plummeting right down into lakes where they've got these 20 inch trout and waterfalls everywhere. It's just, you feel so small there.

And you're a two days hike from a car. And so you just, you feel like you are in it to win it. Or lose it, depending on how well you, you know, handle yourself in that, in that terrain. You know, you kind of, once you got out of college, you then worked and got a doctorate degree in Bonnie, I believe.

What made you come up or see your doctorate in general and why in Bonnie? And how's that kind of helped push you to where you are today? So I got my undergrad degree and then I was trying to get out west to work. But as you guys get into the job market, you'll kind of see when you get out of college, it's kind of hard to get out of college.

You know, you're trying to get a job, not where you are. And so I wasn't having much luck getting out there. And so then I was like, well, if I can't get the job I want, I still want to get out west. I was like, I'll think about grad school.

So I found a grad program at Colorado State University. So I got into that and then got that degree that was in, it was computer mapping. If anybody had my seventh grade class when we did topography. So I did that along with ecology for my master's degree.

Got out of that. I was actually offered a PhD to continue that work, but I didn't want to be stuck in front of a computer. It was very computer-based. I wanted to be out in the field.

So I stopped. I didn't pursue that PhD. I worked for a couple of years doing wetland surveying, so mostly botany stuff, but I got to hike around all the mountains in Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, like all over the place. And then I did that for a couple of years.

And then I, through colleagues, met who ended up being my PhD advisor. And I talked to him about some questions that I had that had arisen from work that I had done that I just couldn't find any information on. And so when you pursue, especially like a PhD in anything, medical, engineering, you want to ask a question that doesn't have an answer. And so I couldn't find an answer to these questions.

And so I wanted to pursue it. And he was, it was kind of outside of his wheelhouse. He was like a mountain wetland guy, which is, kind of how I met him. And this was more like urban ag, urban ag and wetlands, but still very plant-based.

And so he was like, yeah, sure, let's get a grant. So we got a National Science Foundation grant to do it. And we pursued that, but it was, it was varied. It was plants.

That was one third of it. One third of it was the mapping, which I'd already done. And then the most difficult piece was a biogeochemical cycling of nitrogen and phosphorus. So that kind of like tested my mental capacity more than, than the other two, but bringing it all together over the course of four and a half years was just, it was a project, which took a lot.

You know, coming out of college, were there those like jobs that you worked that led to your teaching, like teaching career? What kind of, how did you end up at US and what made teaching appealing to you? So I never thought I was going to be a teacher, not because I didn't want to be. I just, it was never on my palette of things to choose from really.

But in that, remember I said, I'm going to find a job out of undergrad. And so what I did is I worked at a nature center. It was just kind of like a stopgap thing just to keep me busy and it got me outside. And so I would do, you know, work for them.

But I would also teach some of the classes. And these were to like little kids, we're talking like five and six year olds. And we take them around the woods and we show them Native American things and we take them out in canoes and stuff. So I just thought that was like something that I had to do.

I enjoyed it, but it was also kind of annoying. right little kids and i was only at that point i was only 22 um but then in and when i did my master's degree i did only research no teaching when i did my phd i also had funding to only do research but my advisor and thankfully told me he's like just try teaching you know teach a class be a be a teaching assistant in a class and just just see if you like it so i did i taught um two classes and it was fun and i enjoyed it and so as i got out of my phd there's kind of two tracks that that i saw in front of me or actually three that i saw in front of me from an environmental standpoint i could either become a professor um i could work for the feds so forest service bureau of land management usgs which is the u.s geological survey or i could go private and work for like a development company or something um i didn't like my chances with the development company because my ethics um i didn't really want to like destroy stuff i wanted to protect it and then right when i was coming out there was a huge hiring freeze for the feds so i kind of got pushed into the education side just out of necessity um but i was also pretty good at it so i had a few really good connections and that put me down the professor track um which obviously is kind of the teaching track and then so here i am and you get very creative with your teaching activities you know i can recount uh numerous activities that we go outside it's like what's he taking us to do today but um where do you think you get those ideas from and you know how do you stay creative with your teaching um usually it's as you guys remember and people remember it's kind of my pet projects if i want something done um i can either spend 10 hours digging a hole or i can get you 10 guys to dig a hole for one hour and get it done um and so usually it's it's it's things like that that i want to do and i'm not a good teacher i'm not a good teacher i'm not a good use in the future like if i want to do water quality testing in my biology class i don't have water at the shaker campus so we're going to dig a pond let it fill with water and now i can test water quality on the shaker campus um and so it's it's things like that i can also see if i'm looking around the classroom when i see boys are just like eyes half closed i'm like all right let's shake it up let's go outside and do something um and even just now that we've got i've got like a basically outdoor classroom out there i can just teach my regular class outside um and yeah people are throwing sticks at each other um but it happens but i'd rather than like be engaged with the outside than to just be falling asleep and what do you think is the value of the outdoor education because i know i love going outside for class but we don't do it a lot so what do you think is the value that it brings um other than just i think it helps people figure out how to focus in an environment where there's more going on right there's a squirrel over here there's a car driving by whatever but we still have to learn and so it helps you kind of learn how to focus in an environment that's got stuff happening around you fresh air is always good sunlight's always good um and then it allows me because i teach science like there's i could pick up anything and relate it to whatever topic we're talking about whether it's chemistry or physics or biology like i can i can pick up anything and incorporate it in and then pass it around um i can make them go out and search for something related to what we're talking about right i can't do that in a classroom necessarily you know one of the better classes of science i think i've ever had was yours in eighth grade where we worked on a circuit and kind of putting stuff together to make an electrical outlet right that hands-on teaching to this day has applied in certain like certain things where just last week i set up an electrical outlet right how do you think that hands-on teaching experience really makes kids want to learn more and have you done more projects since then using that um type of style the circuit one was a new one it made me nervous when we did the outlets because we went from like 1.5 volt batteries to 110 120 volt coming out of the wall which is like that's a big jump and if you get it wrong it really hurts um so i that one i wasn't sure how it was going to go but you guys did a really good job i think more people got injured just by poking themselves with the wires um i know that we blew a lot of circuit breakers we had to get those turned on but that's that's their job um but that hands-on stuff like you know you look at a wall and you plug something in it's kind of nice to know how it works and what's behind the wall and i guarantee you guys like you're gonna have to do something with an outlet or a circuit or something in your life and it's nice to be able to kind of like think back to it um same thing like when i take boys out and we dig holes and we plant plants or something like you're gonna have to do that at some point it's nice to know how to do it just how to just do stuff um the one we did this past fall which is kind of funny um we were uh inoculating which is basically giving an injection of to a log with mushroom sporters um so what you had to do is you had to drill a hole in the log um and you pound this little like it looks like a little peg of sawdust with mushroom stuff in it um and you have to do like 50 or 60 per log so the boys had to get the logs out of my truck and we had to stack them up we identified which kind of logs they were you had to tag them we had to drill the holes i didn't have that many drills um so i had those those old school hand crank drills and i gave them to what i thought were the burlier of my eighth graders and i mean they must have spent 30 minutes drilling one hole and then they were just like i i'm not doing this anymore uh so just but then it gives them credibility to think about like how much easier it is to use a power drill and the advantages we have to be able to do that like it it makes it so that you appreciate what we have when you don't have it you have to test it out that's the way i go camping it's like i appreciate my bed and my air conditioning when i'm sweating it out on the ground somewhere you know for a night and then i come home and i'm like this is so nice yeah you know what are some of the ways you think we as a school can do a better job in utilizing those outdoor spaces that we have i mean we're on a huge campus what are some of the ways that even you think that we could do that and i think that's a really good question well i know they've done at least this year they've done a big push to get freshmen outside um which i think is great and now the weather's improving they can continue to do that in the springtime um so the science suits have been doing a good job with that the real crunch to all that it's not the resource which we have it's the time we have to do it um so in shaker we don't have the big resources but i can get from my classroom to the arboretum in one minute so it's it's a very quick process and it's a very quick process and it's a very quick process and it's a very quick turnaround like we can do we can still have a full class outside so i think here what what maybe needs to happen to be able to utilize the class the 50 minute class you have is that how long your classes are yeah 45 45 yeah yeah is to have stuff set up closer so you can get to something instead of having to go really really far unless you have one of those lab block extensions where you can go farther um or just try to figure out a way to in the schedule to like get those science classes longer on some of those days the other thing too is like and i've been i've been seeing and encouraging uh students and teachers on our campus to have other classes outside have their music class outside if they don't need their computers have you know a reading day where the english class just goes outside and sits and reads and reads aloud and does that kind of thing um they're more willing to do that on nicer days i'm willing to push the boundary on weather for my guys a little bit um i told the boy they're like well when do we when do we stop going outside i was like well let's figure out when the whiteboard marker freezes and i'll tell you what it's below 32 degrees um so i'll take them outside and i'll like we did stuff with snow outside this winter um and we'll go outside if it's raining like we'll go outside in any weather you know you have the privilege of not only teaching students in science but also kids just in life right what are some of the things that you try to teach down maybe outside of science that you think just apply to just general knowledge um the biggest one i try to teach and i'm working with my son now who's 11 is just perseverance like if he can't do something he immediately looks to me and i throw my hands up and i'm like figure it out you've only been trying for 30 seconds and so as as kids get older and then when i take kids out in the woods and camp on these camping trips you know i teach them how to do things and then by the end of a week-long camping trip i'm not pumping the water anymore i'm not filtering it i'm not cooking dinner i'm not cleaning up they are not doing anything i'm not doing anything i'm not doing anything i'm not doing anything and so if they're having trouble with something they they by the end they don't ask me anymore they kind of figure it out amongst themselves um which is that's what i want them to do it's it's the it's the troubleshooting it's the figuring it's the critical thinking and i do that in my classroom and then we do other stuff outside they're like i can't dig this route up and i was like well figure it out like how you have to get that out of there like how are you going to do it i'm not going to tell you it's going to be hard but figure it out yeah you mentioned teaching your your son do you ever feel like it's hard to separate that classroom teaching style from dad teaching style oh man yeah when i'm trying to teach him math because i remember my dad remember a nuclear engineer very good at math trying to teach me algebra i was like dad letters belong in english class they don't belong in math class and he's like don't think of it as a letter it's a number and i'm like well what number is it he's like it can be any number what do you mean it can be any number so i i think math is the hardest one because math is taught differently like generationally they come up with new ways to teach it so as he gets harder in the math i'm gonna have to i'm gonna have to talk to like mr jones and mr kniesel and mr lipford to be like how are you actually teaching this so i can do it but i i try not to be a teacher at home um but as they get older like he's 11 so he's in fifth grade now so he's gonna come up through my classes and there is gonna be some of that where like i have to be parent homework help mode not teacher mode but i don't know we'll see how it goes yeah you know also in addition to teaching science at the shaker campus you also are one of the cross country coaches for the middle school team which jack had the privilege of running on um but why do you love kind of doing that and what do you think kind of cross country and all the other sports that you help out with really help the students um i like cross country because i like to do it with the boys remember i used to run with you guys um so it kept me in shape it was it allowed me to kind of like you know from like baseball or basketball you can coach from the sideline because the person's right there if you're running three miles through the woods if you're not with them you can't coach them um so i try to run with the different groups the faster slower guys the middle guys and give them coaching as we're going um which also helps keep me in shape i appreciate it i can push them um which is fun and we've had some very fast kids it's harder to coach when you're out of breath running next to somebody um but i also uh coach the distance guys in track like i write their training plans and then i i jumped into a few wrestling practices and and thought i could hang i hung for a little bit but man like finn and doyle like those guys were just crushing me i was sore for like a week um i still have a scar on my knee actually from finn's headgear um so but that like being it's fun to see students in a different like they change from the classroom to the sports field um and i think it's fun for the students to see teachers in a different capacity which is why i like the fact that so many teachers coach because they get to interact in like this different way for both both folks um and i get to remind them that they still need to do their homework for kids that are in my class like a third reminder if i need to yeah i remember cross-country practice brendan and i would be having a nice run over at the park and then you just pop out of the woods but all right let's go guys jeez you guys there we go um well i mean running is hard and a lot of the sports that you have done or coach is hard and they all take discipline but uh how do you get the kids on the team to buy in to it being hard and just accepting that um i wouldn't say there's not a hundred percent buy-in out the gate um as you guys know like anything you start like that learning curve hurts um i think having uh like intermediate successes like achievable goals they're like i want to run a six minute mile well let's start with a seven minute mile let's blow that one out of the water and then let's go um it also really helps to have boys compete in a friendly way on the team of having like two guys work hard together and push each other um like you and brennan and then and then they can be like oh duking it out and then you're just you're happy when they when they do well you're happy when you beat them or when you get to stay on their team and then you're just you're happy when they when they do well um and then i think looking back to where they were four weeks ago like it's a short season so you can make major gains but not as much as you might in a longer season like you guys have up here but just look back be like look back before you could only run a half a mile and now you're running the whole two mile race i don't care how fast it is but you ran the whole two mile race without stopping like that's super exciting um and so giving them all that that intermediate feedback and those intermediate successes helps them buy in and they're able to do that and want to do well in the future even though it hurts yeah what does exercising in general con mean to you whether it's running biking lifting growing all the other different sports what do you think in the end of the day it really just means to you um for me i'm not i mean i have my individual goals right but they're not the driving factor like my wife she has to have doesn't have to but likes to have a race and a goal to sort of direct her training i just like to get out and feel like i'm in the right place and i'm in the right place and i'm in the right place and i'm in the right place and i'm in the right place and i'm in the right place and i feel good like i feel better when i sweat each day and you boys know like there's a different kind of sweat there's like an athletic sweat and then there's like a nervous having to give a presentation sweat and i like the athletic sweat like that that breathing hard it just it energizes me when i'm at school like i have uh breaks right i have like a block off where i don't teach and most of those blocks off as long as it's not after lunch because lord knows i can't i can't exercise after eating the huge meal i'm not going to be able to do that so i'm going to have to eat at school um i go out and run and i can get anywhere from four to six and a half miles in in a teaching block and i come back in and i guarantee you i teach better that next block i might be sweaty um and red-faced but i'm i'm a better teacher i'm more energized i have like more focus i can drop the other stuff away that's stressful in my life and then just like i can hit that that next class nice and hard um and i do that with all with my life when i'm not like in the summer same thing i can come back with clarity right now i really need to work on my taxes so i need to go i need to go for a run have some clarity sit down and hammer out the tax stuff yeah well i mean i remember we left well a couple kids went down to lift at like 6 a.m on our dc trip and we lasted for one morning and then that was it but i think you went down there every morning yeah yeah i remember i put i put brennan on a um on a treadmill which i didn't he was like he wanted to he had a goal for the spring track and i was like i'm gonna do it i'm gonna do it he wanted to run like a really fast 800 i was like brennan you can't take five days off so he's like all right i'll run i was like well we can't run around the building i'll put you on a treadmill and he didn't say anything but he had never been on a treadmill before so he was like he looked so nervous i thought he was gonna fall off the dang thing and but like we had to do speed work and like speed work on a treadmill is it's tricky so i was like let's let's ease into this speed work because i don't want you to die yeah well speaking of the speed work i was like i'm gonna do a speed work for doing a treadmill and that's the thing you know i kind of like me and i've been doing that for the last five years and it's really fun but i've been doing it for five years and it's really fun being in a school like i don't know what the hell shit i don't know what that's the thing i'm gonna do it look at what i did this weekend and be like yes so i ran a treadmill and i was like okay and i felt like i could do this more easily um and i hadn't even done it before so that was the first time i did it and yeah it was really fun thing and sometimes when you get one of those things that i feel like i'm gonna do it again it's like i'm gonna do it again and that's what makes it so exciting to me so that's that's really interesting what you talked about want to keep going um so my trail runs are like that's my bread and butter which has been hard this winter it's been so so cold so icy like i'll run in the cold but it's the iciness it's the mud that like really slows me down i don't want to run for 60 minutes and have to do 60 minutes of laundry um but the spring will warm it up and so trail running has always been my thing you know a lot of teachers talk about what they do and how it impacts students but what we don't really talk about is the legacy they leave on a school when you leave years years hopefully down the road what is kind of legacy that you want to leave for the lower school and even kind of upper school um i'm thinking about this because uh like mr harman is like he's he's got a legacy and he's still here um something like what kind of legacy he's gonna leave um and what kind of legacy like that's i could never meet match his what he's done um but as of right now i'm i'm still able to hang with with the kids like playing soccer and and stuff like that and so i think the legacy i want to live leave with the boys is that you know the older you get you can still hang right um i can't really hang with the lingo i have to learn new new slang words every year um but i can hang physically and interest wise like you know i see boys skiing all the time um and i can i can hang with them and i'm gonna hopefully be able to hang as long as i can as long as my joints hold up and and whatever and i stop messing myself up but yeah you know speaking of just like the whole passion for just teaching jack and i always talk about what our why's are as students right and we've made it a tradition of talking to all our guests and um asking them about what is their why we want to know what makes you want to get up in the morning work out and just make such a positive difference in everyone's life dr c doc c what is your why um my why is getting stuff done like i just i like to get stuff done i get up even if it's just first thing i do is i make coffee like i just did that yes it's done um not so good on the making the bed thing although you guys have probably seen that um that video of like the morning guy yeah talking about the make your bed first thing in the morning i don't do that but i make coffee i do clean the kitchen do the dishes but then i just like to i like to see the end of the day what i've done so like yesterday i was sitting on the front porch it was a nice evening and i'm just looking out at my kids were selling maple syrup at the end of the driveway so the wagon was out with the maple syrup stuff in it uh we had planted a bunch of plants and so i could see the holes that we had dug in where we planted plants my kids were raking and they had they had done that and so seeing things that got done sometimes you can't like not everything you see like you know if i have to answer emails like i can't see that but i know it got done and i can't see everything my kids do like if they organize their rock collection or if they counted all their money and put it in little little piles but they got stuff done and so my why for is to get stuff done and have people see me doing things because then it's going to make them be like oh i should like i want to get stuff done like i want to i want to have things that i accomplished today and every day that's that's my why yeah well that was a deep question now for a fun question if you had unlimited funds and unlimited time what would your ideal trip be okay well i don't like helicopters um although a friend of mine had shown me some cool pictures of a heli skiing trip which looked pretty sweet um wait do i have unlimited time to unlimited time and funds okay um i i've always wanted i've hiked part of the continental divide trail which is the big one that goes north to south from mexico to canada and colorado i've hiked part of the appalachian trail which is you know the east coast i would love to do each one the third one is the pacific crest trail which runs north to south through california and oregon and washington so i would like to do each of those some people have tried to do it all in one year that's stupid um because each one you need it's it's to appreciate its season so i would like to to hike each one of those but each one takes you know funding wise not that much i mean it's just food um but to do the appalachian trail in a reasonable rate and enjoy it probably not as much as i would like to do the appalachian trail in a reasonable rate and enjoy three to four months continental divide same pacific coast pacific crest trail maybe a little bit longer because um they get so much snow on the mountains in washington and oregon that your your window to do it is is tighter or you just move really really slow when you get to that section so i would love to be able to do each of those individually and what's the perfect person to bring on that trip like do you want a funny person you want like a strong person um i want someone strength isn't isn't the issue funny like being able to like see the humor and being poured on for two days straight and still and i have i have some friends that are like that that i can i called up when i turned 40 this past fall i called a buddy of mine up and he drove 13 hours to meet me to go hiking in colorado um and uh that my buddy roger like he's got a big bushy beard um he's as he put it he's like i'm moderately out of shape willing to do everything i was uh with a good spirit about it so that's that's the kind of you want someone who's just willing to to do it and be uncomfortable and still smile and joke about it don't complain don't complain don't complain well doxy is been great having you on the show today thank you so much for taking the time to share your highlight like your insights experiences and all your different stories with us to our listeners thank you so much for tuning in and we'll hope you'll join us next wednesday for the next episode of lead start show thanks doxy thanks boys